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    Knowledgable legal help regarding AWA

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    millie1*

    Posts : 17
    Join date : 2012-10-05

    Re: Knowledgable legal help regarding AWA

    Post  millie1* on Tue Oct 09, 2012 7:42 am

    Hi thanks guess you have been through it too - they currently have 6 of mine (4 under appeal in crown court) and the 2 they took 8 months ago - reportedly underweight (a stallion had been put in the paddock next ot them three weeks earlier and I had to remove the big bale hay I was having delivered and he kept hassling them and getting in) inadequate hoof care - but the farrier who treated them before iwas even interviewed said they werent overgrown and only rasped them, and non treatment of sarcoids - I have had 4 with sarcoids - 2 have self healed when moved from the original yard -both DNAs offered to world authority for research purposes. Both mares never been stabled or separated. They have stabled them almost 24/7 for the whole time cos the sarcoids might be contagious (not), and the underweight one remains underweight after 4 months of RSPCA treatment (she is depressed not that I have been allowed to see her - against Police and Criminal Evidence Act 1984!) - have requested immediate return under Sect 20 of AWA as RSPCA are now contravening Sect 9 2 a,c,d and e!!!! (unable to behave normally etc). have decided to let solicitor get the expert reports etc I have listed under the legal aid bill and asked him to request mini trial to establish lawfulness of seizure (vet did not examine or identify which is against RCVS code of conduct and BEVA guidelines) and police hadnt a clue what they were doing and it was dark!. Then I will carry on as if they arent involved and drop them just before the trial and do it myself anyway!!!
    Have you any ideas where I might be able to attract some sponsorship for the training? Thought of approaching NFU, Countryside Alliance, Country Gent Assoc, BEF etc as I want to specialise in all the 6 Animal Laws incl Hunting Act. In return I will offer to work for nothing etc doing admin or whatever to the sponsorship value of £40 day (if within 50 miles). Cant find any other way of funding since Govt not interested in retraining!

    Trilby Bee

    Posts : 116
    Join date : 2011-09-17
    Location : London

    Knowledgeable Legal Help Regarding AWA

    Post  Trilby Bee on Tue Oct 09, 2012 5:10 am

    Well, Millie, you really are talking from first plenty of first hand experience by the sound of it. But be warned, don't bank on the legal aid too much, that was my mistake, also do bear in mind that all the time the case is going on they RSPCA will be charging thro the nose for keeping any of your animals they have stolen. And as you say, the animals they take are not "distressed". The greedy RSPCA vet said my horse had "superficial abrasions" - we all know that if something is superficial you would not call a vet. So it was not worth mentioning. But on the next page he shot himself in the foot (pity it was not his head) and described the same abrasions as "open sores". The RSPCA woman had no qualms whatsoever about lying. Well, my horse was not distressed at all, but the RSPCA stole her and kept her for months, then handed her to the World Horse (so-called) Welfare who issued a press release after the case saying what caring people they were, what a good life the horse was now enjoying...being rehabilitated...waiting for a new and caring home... and promptly shot her. If she had been suffering so badly, why was she not euthanized at once instead of waiting six months? She did not appear on their rehoming list, I checked every day...then I checked the National Equine Database and read that the horse was "reported deceased". It also strikes me that the animal "seeing a vet" regularly will get you off the hook. Mr Greedy, private money-grabbing vet used by the RSPCA wrote in his statement that the horse had not seen a vet for 12 months when she had her teeth rasped and suggested that horses need teeth done two or three times a year. Everyone I know has annual dental checks on their horse, told this to the so-called solicitor and he shrugged.
    If you do use a solicitor, you need a specialist one which I doubt you will get on Legal Aid.
    The solicitor allocated to my case was the ONE AND ONLY one on their "meet the team" info with NO qualifications behind his name. My own son, not a practising lawyer, has at least got LL.B as he has a law degree. The guy they gave me had zero, zilch, nowt behind his name. At least if you are unemployed you have time to do a thorough search, if you need more time your lawyer can get things adjourned.

    Keep us updated. Very Happy

    millie1*

    Posts : 17
    Join date : 2012-10-05

    Re: Knowledgable legal help regarding AWA

    Post  millie1* on Mon Oct 08, 2012 8:55 am

    Thanks for the support guys - I guess you have all had experiences similar to myself. Have got legal aid now but the solicitor I have dealt with in the past will have to be a witness this time due to statements made during another case which the prosecution now deny!!! Have got the top man in the firm and presented him with my 5 inch stack of work tis morning, and cross exam papers - he spent an hour or so - got through the farrier statement and a few bits and pieces but not interested in the rest until 'nearer the time' Think I will ask if he can use his budget to give me advice on the law (though he didnt know section 18 (11) states it is the police/inspector (ie not RSPCA) who should notify an animal has been seized if keeper not present (I almost gave up then and there but if he can get the experts funded, get the statements and evidence out of the prosecution, and give me advice on the legal process I think I will do the court bit myself - he seemed to think he would cherry pick through my questions (9 pages A4 for the seizure vet alone) but you have to back them into a corner and block off all escape routes to stand a chance. if anyone needs guidance on websites, info already out there in relation to doing it themselves and how to approach it please get in touch. Sometimes you just stumble on it by accident and its a real eye opener! Note I know most about horses but happy while unemployed to look at other species! (free service until I get qualified - make the most of it! ) It seems they are only interested in the charging offence not the law as a whole. In most cases you should even dispute the section 18 as most animals are not in 'distress' as defined by a dictionary.
    Magistrate I had for the pleading part sided with me (unusual) as I dispute the seizure and want the policeman called to answer in court, prosecution said unjustified, magistrate said call him! (He had had horses with sarcoids himself but sadly cant do the 'trial' as he will have prejudice from the plead!

    basil

    Posts : 45
    Join date : 2009-01-02

    Re: Knowledgable legal help regarding AWA

    Post  basil on Sun Oct 07, 2012 1:31 pm

    Hello Millie.
    I also wish you all the best in getting your funding.
    Not only do we need people with the balls and the know how to take on the likes of the RSPCA but morepeople need to stand up to them on the door step.
    Education, education, education.

    Trilby Bee

    Posts : 116
    Join date : 2011-09-17
    Location : London

    Knowledgeable Legal Help Regarding AWA

    Post  Trilby Bee on Sun Oct 07, 2012 12:45 am

    Hello Millie, glad to hear from you.

    Well, your idea sounds absolutely brilliant and I hope you get your funding. If it is any consolation, you are not missing out not getting Legal Aid. I went to CAB and got a list of local solicitors who might take on my case. Only one would and they were SO bad I wondered what they got paid for. The first thing I was told (on the phone)was how little (boo hoo) they got paid to do a Legal Aid case and consequently they did as little as possible. According to the one who spoke to me, they get paid a flat fee whether the case lasts a week or a year...so he said. I had to suggestto them that I go and see them, they did not even want me to waste their time with a face to face appointment. Got there, kept waiting an hour, got in and he was reading my notes aloud .... he had obviously not read them in advance so did not have a clue what was going on or what I was talking about and kept "shussing" me so he could read the notes which he had had two weeks to do but had not bothered as it was legal aid and not important. By the date of the case, I had still not heard if I had got Legal Aid or not so rang these solicitors. Some woman (I found out later that she was a trainee, not even qualified)said casually that I should just go there (30 miles) and ask for an adjournment. Magistrates were totally mortified and said if there was an adjournment that my solicitor should have rung and done it, or at least turned up with me in court. So that set the Magistrates against me from the beginning as you can imagine. And of course there were court costs for a wasted day, RSPCA using, as they do, very greedy solicitors, who had, of course, turned up and had to be paid by me in the end. They dod not go by CPS standards.
    My solicitors did nothing to help...on the last day, when their barrister was supposed to turn up at 9.3o to give his "mitigating speech" (I had got up at 4.30 to be there on time) he eventually rolled up at 2.30 just as the Mags were about to postpone it. This did not, as you can imagine, help my case one bit. The barrister they sent had obviously NO idea what the case was about...instead of having a folder with notes, like the shark for the RSPCA, he was reading from his mobile...can you believe that!!!!obviously the law firm had emailed my notes to him while he was on the train and that was the first he had heard of me. He did not even know what section of the AWA Act I was being charged with, or what the so-called offence was and made it quite obvious.....quite honestly the whole thing was a fiasco, and because they were so dim, I ended up going to court several times and being charged accordingly. And yes, Millie, I would much have preferred to do the case myself...in fact I spent hours going thro the case notes myself and highlighting the lies on the witness (RSPCA) statement, proof which I still have that there were discrepancies and pointed them out to the dim solicitors and they just shrugged their shoulders. As for knowledgeable lawyers, the name I have heard more than once is Nigel Weller and I think he is in Sussex (but stand to be corrected on that).

    I really hope you get your funding as the RSPCA really need someone who can take them on.

    millie1*

    Posts : 17
    Join date : 2012-10-05

    Knowledgable legal help regarding AWA

    Post  millie1* on Fri Oct 05, 2012 8:40 am

    Hi there I presume from reading various other posts that knowledgable legal help regarding defending AWA prosecutions by our favourite animal charity is thin and far between. I have got so fed up that after having legal aid refused I have prepared my own case incl tonnes of evidence, picking literally hundreds of holes in the prosecution statements etc. I still statistically have a very slim chance of winning (1.8% success in 2011 against RSPCA = per their own website). However, surely such a level of success (98.2) on the part of the RSPCA means that there must be some flaw on the defence side/legal system.
    Currently I am trying to get funding to study as a freelance paralegal to specialise in Animal Law cases on qualification. This could mean firms of solicitors would have a (cheap) specialist to refer to in such cases. Does anyone out there think this would be of benefit to the 'law abiding' persecuted animal lovers of the UK.
    Also if you have any suggestions on legal firms (South central preferred) who have had success let me know

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    Re: Knowledgable legal help regarding AWA

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